Posted by PJ on July 03, 2001 at 21:03:15:
In Reply to: Re: USA's birthday, July 4th. - Reply to moglo posted by Edward T. Graney on July 03, 2001 at 19:32:17:
Actually - Edward, far from thinking you were in Ireland on Paddy's Day in an American city - You know well yer in America because how much more it's celebrated and how much more razamatazz only the Americans could attach to an event like they do with everything from American Football to Welcoming home hostages (This is the country in which Brandsmart - A huge electrical goods outlet store has a "Paddy's Day Sale" - But then they have a Memorial Days Sale and a Presidents Day Sale and A 4th July sale and.....). In any case I think Paddys Day is much better fun celebrated outside Ireland - All my experiences of it have been in any case.
Your inference that since State and Religion are theoritically separate in this country (USA) there is no allowance for official celebrating of Saints Day's which is an interesting point tho when one contemplates my earlier reference to MLK day, Possibly the closest person to a saint that the US has produced in the last century.
But on the other hand to suggest that Paddy's Day is any different to 4th July is somewhat offensive. True it has it's basis in the feast day of Ireland's patron saint but moreso than that in reality it is Ireland's National Holiday in the same way as the 4th July is America's. We don't celebrate independence 'cos in reality we're not really sure when it came about (or even if it really has yet!!)
Your other interesting point from your posting above is also provocative, your summation that with a knowledge of history, one can declare America to be the greatest experiment in the history of Mankind. That I would also deem to be incredibly arrogant and assumptive and somewhat misguided. I would also imagine many scholars of history would beg to differ and could cite examples as varied as The Greek republic, The Roman Empire, The Empire of Gengis Khan, The Egypt of The Pharos, The Zulu Empire of King Lobengula, The Haiti of Freed Slaves, The Empires of The Aztecs or Mayan's or (perhaps most significantly of all an all the more ironic since it's downfall was brought about by the forces of your great nation) was the Indian Nation of The Cherokee in Oklohoma or the 7 Tribes of The Mohawk.
Don't forget that in historical relative terms this "experiment" you speak of is still very young and has far from proven itself yet in my opinion.
I still stand by the fact that individuals not the Irish nation as a whole owe gratitude to the USA and can opt to celebrate and acknowledge that in whatever way they choose personally on the 4th of July. To impose the celebration of another countries holiday on an entire nation is as offensive and arrogant and angerous as your inference that the USA doesn't celebrate saints days for danger of who it migth offend.
Never fail to be aware or forget that there are many people in Ireland and the world over that love freedom and democracy but are already incinced and irritated by the all pervading and ever encroaching tide of Americanization and the Coca Coala culture into seemingly ever facet of their lives.
To suggest to these people that on top of all this, Ireland should also embrace the national holiday of America, is a display of the sort of American Imperial arrogance that increasingly turns people the world over against America and Americans.
And all that is said with a deep love of this country along with my own!